Originally Posted by comyncats

Well, admittedly it's not so very easy tyo find a red female - tortie is the more common expression of O (red) gene in females.

No - what I meant was that there've been quite a few cats which have passed as (say) a black or a black silver which in fact bred as torties (throwing O gene kittens) but to all intents and purposes, they had no red on them. UNTIL a 100% careful inspection was done and a few stray red hairs were located. Or even, the paw pads or lips were mottled...no sign of red fur..