today, i was very very upset....with one of the breeder.....

as a newcomer, we dont really know how good is the breeder but of course we are looking for a healthy, good cat.....
not a breeder yang just push the kitten just for money.....

by just looking at the breeder's website, any of us as a new comer and no expirience will be mesmerized by the cats in the website.

luckly for me i dont yet bought the cat from the breeder when i know they're just making money for the cats. how do we tell that the breeder is really good one's even we are still new?

can you tell more what has happened? from there we will know more and what to help..

sometime to the breeder the price is ok but some potential buyer maybe didnt actually know the standard price for that breed...

even some cases where the way the potential ask the breeder also not in proper manner..such as " ini jual kucing ka? brapa harga? boleh kurang ka? apsal mahal sgt...kat pet shop murah saja hari tuh tengok...etc..."

im not accusing anyone here..but it will be much better if you explain more ur experience...if we can help then we will try to help...thats the purpose of this forum anyway.."to guide and to help"

cheers

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MBTI E-13 S-29 T-27 J-27

This guide is courtesy of a friend of mine.

FINDING A GOOD BREEDER

Many unsuspecting pet owners will buy a cat from a breeder uninformed. How do you know if you are dealing with a reputable breeder? Often, it is hard to tell a "good' breeder from a "not so good" breeder.

Any kitten you select will be with you, on average, around 15 years. It is very important to find a kitten that you will love and that is healthy. I highly suggest doing as much research on finding good cats as possible.

GENERAL GUIDELINES:

1.) Adopt from a breeder that offers a contract and a guarantee. Not only does this protect the breeder's interests, it protects you, the buyer.

2.) Do NOT adopt any kitten that is less than 12 weeks old, many reputable breeders will not send their kittens to their new homes until they are 16 weeks old. A kitten that is younger than 12 weeks old is too young! If the kitten placed in a new home and is younger than 8 weeks old - that actually breaks some state laws.

3.) Only go to a breeder that allows you access to see the cattery. If someone does not want you to see the cattery, there is may trouble there. You should see the cats live in conditions that are comfortable and the cats are socialized, playful and healthy. Check the eyes for clearness and clarity, make sure the noses are clear and not wet. Kittens should appear robust - ribs and backbone should not be visible.

I recommend that before you adopt a cat, if you can to go visit several different catteries, see what they are like, the differences may surprise you and open your eyes to something you may not have noticed if you had only visited the one.

4.) NEVER take a sick kitten home. Most pet adopters are not equipped to deal with kitten sickness like breeders are. If a breeder lets a sick kitten go - they clearly do not have the kitten's best interest at heart. You will end up spending a small fortune at the vets for a sick kitten and it may even end up dying. Many states have pet lemon laws that do not allow for this.

5.) Most breeders require this anyway, but ALWAYS take your kitten (this goes for ANY new pet) to the vet within 48-72 hours of bringing into your new home. Most pet adopters are not knowledgeable enough to truly determine if a cat/kitten is healthy/sick. Only a professional should do that. For $30-$40, you will have piece of mind that your animal is healthy and "proof" if the animal is not.

6.) Do NOT be compulsive about adopting your cat/kitten. Most reputable breeders only have a few litters a year and there are usually waiting lists or many interested in adopting kittens. If a breeder has every color and type of kitten available - this is unusual and can indicate a backyard breeder with too many cats. This kitten will be with you and your family for many years to come. Waiting 3-6 months for the cat of your dreams is well worth the wait.

7.) Ask the breeder what they test for, ask what issues are specific to the breed. They should test for: FIV, Feline Leukemia, cardiomyopathy. Ask to see copies of the paperwork, if a breeder gets offended that you ask, move onto a new breeder. They may not want to give you a copy for confidentiality reasons, however, they should be open to allowing you to view them.

8.) Try to figure out how many litters there are... socialization of the kittens is extremely important. I am only comfortable having 2 litters at a time. If there are more than that, it is harder to get those kittens socialized. It is not impossible... but much harder to do.

9.) Ask yourself, "Do I feel comfortable with this breeder?" Do you feel the breeder cares about what you want from your pet? Do you feel like you can call this breeder if you need to, even for 'silly' stuff, like what kind of litter to use? If you do not feel like that is the case, move on. Breeders create these cats, and should be willing to help them in every way.

10.) Pointer 10 Not Applicable

11.) Adopt from somewhere local if you can. This can be easy or hard depending on the rarity/popularity of the breed and your location. Flying cats can be stressful for the cats and there is no way to return a cat without paying the fee for the return flight.

You can check www.breedlist.com or www.kittysites.com or http://www.tica.org/homepagetoc.htm for breeders in your area. This does NOT mean all listed on these sites are reputable/ethical breeders. You STILL must determine that yourself.

12.) Advertising Imports... Imports are not necessarily any better than something that is not. It should not go into the cost factor of a cat. (i.e. increase the cost to you)

13.) Do not let a breeder convince you to take a kitten with breeding rights if you are not interested. Breeding is challenging, emotionally and financially draining, and a lot of hard work. It takes love of the breed and true devotion to it... that is required to *do right* by the animals!

14.) Recently, there have been some pet buyers that have had breeders change the price (higher) on them. Make sure you get a WRITTEN price with some sort of breeder confirmation before you send your deposit in so it cannot be changed.

15.) Deposits should not be more than $300. Deposits are used to demonstrate there is a real interest in the kitten. By putting a deposit down, it means the breeder will turn away other potential adopters. It is also used to cover the cost of the alter. Deposits that are higher than this may be questionable

MYTHS:

1.) MYTH: A breeder that has been breeding for years is a "good breeder".

This is not necessarily true. It can be an attribute if the breeder maintains current knowledge and is updating her breeding practices as science gets more advanced. Also, time in the breed does not teach ethics.

2.) MYTH: The breeder has a contract, this means he/she is standing behind his/her cats.

NOT ALWAYS! It is an important step, but one must take a look at the 'bigger picture'. First, what is the content of the contract? Most breeders will have genetic guarantees for 1, maybe 2 years. Most genetic issues will not show up until after 1 year. Is your cat certified (free of infectious diseases) by the vet before you get him? Are you required to take you cat to the vet within 3 days of receiving him? The answer should be yes!

3.) MYTH: A vet reference means the breeder is "gold"

Not always. Be careful about vet and other breeder references. A vet is bound by confidentiality. You can always ask and speak to a vet, if she has high praise, then most likely that is fine. If you find the vet is tight lipped and vague, he may have something he cannot tell you because the breeder will not allow it!

Breeder references can be good, but still remember to be careful. Generally, yes, you should ask the for references, but remember a healthy dose of skepticism is always good.

4.) MYTH: A breeder that is a registered cattery in TICA, CFA, FiFe, ACFA, etc. is reputable and ethical.

This is not always true. While all reputable breeders are registered in at least one organization - these organizations are primarily registering bodies that generally do not get involved with ethical issues with breeders. Basically, they register cats and establish rules for shows and registration... they are NOT the cat breeder police. Because of this, there are unethical breeders that have cats registered with some association(s).

5.) MYTH: The breeder seems so nice, so they must be a good breeder.

This is not true. Everyone can be nice when they want to be - especially if they are trying to make a sale and are interested in money! There are many breeders that appear nice, but are either ignorant of proper feline husbandry or just don't care. The breeder should have a heartfelt interest in where her cats go and not necessarily tell you what you want to hear. Some of the breeders that appear more demanding and ask more questions are that way because they care about their cats and not making money. If the breeder cares about the cat's well being in your home, there is a good chance that will be a good cat for you to adopt.

5.) Pretty website saying the right things. Must be a good breeder.

Not necessarily. Even the unethical breeders know what to say and can take good photos and make pretty websites

__________________
People HATE my guts!

Proud Mommy of

Trumpkin (Exotic Shorthair)

everyday...for 8 hours i just tengok internet about cats.....i was planning to have a cat....but of course i want good want and i think money doesnt compare on what the cat i believe can do for the whole family......

i'm not orang kaya.....but for the cats that i want i dont really care on how much i have to spend....

tapi...i kan orang baru...don't know much about cats and breeder.....
i was really mesmerized with his kittet from this particular breeder and even i dah put a deposit....but i feel weird....that bila i tanya a lot a lot a lot of question....mcm tak nak jawab je.....

and i also request for the letter that this kitten is healthy but he refused.but i keep telling my heart its not right for me to judge people like that...

so.....spoke to another breeder and i find out that this particular breeder is not a good breeder....i was so upset when today i was planning to change one of my rooms will be the kitten's room and even buying the cats furniture....can u imagine it's like losing our kids...that's how i felt....the name is already given....huhuhuh

thanks ger1011...

for the advise......it's worth waiting for so long....but so exited......cannot wait already.....

dont worry...if the breeder wont tolerate with you ,then you should not tolerate specially when it come with kitten guarantee...to me this is a must..as new owner spend so much time and money , then its worth/must to have a kitten guarantee.

again..dont worry if you dont buy the kitten from that particular breeder as not only him/her will get a good loving cat....take your time slowly and dont let ur emotion cloud you.... there are more loving and nice cat available..just sometime take a bit more effort to find it.

im not in the position to tell who is good and who is bad but if you need help to buy particular breed then u can ask me by pm or u can also ask ppl in this forum..

to me..the most important thing :-

1. dont let the breeder to influence you buying their kitten. i've been there and i dont want anyone to repeat my mistake.

2. dont let the breeder pushing u to buy in lot( in pair etc) or intact if you got no plan to breed...owning a sterile kitten/cat is much more fun and easier than intact cat. the cat condition will be much better...nicer hair/coat, better temperament...no spray here and there, less vocal,etc..

3. sales contract!!

4. health guarantee against genetic defect at least until 1 years old.

5. heath guarantee for 48-72 hours upon receiving the kitten/cat. if within this period , got any problem, you have the right to either get reimbursement of the medical bill or return the cat and ask for replacement...depend on how the contract written..

6. always keep in touch with the breeder and u feel comfortable talking or communicate with the breeder. when u purchase the kitten with the breeder, it will be like extending the family...so u will communicate from time to time...


good luck on ur search..hopefully u get a good nice kitten 1 day that can stay with you for a long time...

__________________
www.fancycoon.com


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MBTI E-13 S-29 T-27 J-27

Very good guideline, Ger1011 & very good advice, Farish.

Unethical breeder are everywhere in the world & Malaysia is definitely not one tht is without. Owning a cat is a lifetime commitment so search & check carefully any breeder you wish to get your kitten from as you don't wish to regret after getting it. Always remind yourself not to rush yourself into getting your kitten as you will be easily talk into buying a kitten you might regret by unethical breeder who will easily spot your excitement of wanting a kitten fast. I always remind ppl not to buy on impulse & I will not want to sell my kitten to ppl who are going to buy on impulse.


2005-2006 International Division Asia/Latin America Best of Breed Maine Coon
GC,Himedaruma Mt Takao of Felis Wonder (Best Maine Coon)
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(1) GC,DW Felis Wonder Lee Simon (2006-2007 ID Asia/LA 2nd Best Cat, Best Maine Coon & 10th Best Maine Coon Nationally)
(2) GP,DW Felis Wonder Toby Solomon (2006-2007 ID Asia/LA 9th Best Premier & Best Maine Coon Premeir)
(3) GC, Felis Wonder Romeo, (4) GP. Felis Wonder Maine in Black, (5) GP. Felis Wonder Indiana Jone, (6) GP. Felis Wonder Cupid Angels Chardonay, (7) GP. Felis Wonder Momo, (8) GC. Felis Wonder Sean Coonery, (9) GP. Felis Wonder Aragon, (10) GP. Felis Wonder Cupid Angels Semillion, (11) GP. Felis Wonder Maybe baby M. Sharapova

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The cattery that produce the most Grands in Malaysia
11 Grands + 3 Non-FW Grands, 4 DW, 1 DM & still counting

What Ger1011, Farish73 & Coony are all true.

Take your time, do some research/investigation. Contact the breeder, understand their background, visit their cattery, observe how they maintain the cattery, observe the condition of the cat and ask the breeder on the temperament/ special habit.

and go back, take a deep breath. Ask yourself, are you satisfied with everything?

A good breeder will not immediately offering you a cat/kitten without knowing you further.

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a) I'd suggest that a guarantee against genetic defects should reasonably cover more than a year - if a breeder is prepared to guarantee at all, they can do so unreservedly. Whatever is defective under 1 year will still be there and some genetic problems don't make themselves known for some years.

b) A 72 hr max health guarantee (after kitten leaves breeder) is pretty ineffectual - most of the likely problems can take up to a fortnight to show - our (Tasmanian) code of ethics requires breeders to be responsible for any health probs (vet bills) for 2 wks after the kitten goes to the new home. Had a case last weekend at our meeting - breeder was forced to reimburse the new owner for expenses involved with ringworm (fungus) which became apparent well after 72 hrs of arriving at the new home.

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Lesley (Tasmania)

Absolutely! It has to be at least a 2 visit process. First is breeder meeting owners (and family, often) and potential buyers seeing the kittens/parents while being assessed (at least by THIS breeder!) for suitability. Then off they go, to cool off if they're going to (or for me to decide "Nope!") and I like them to return for another get-together at least before the deed is done. This can be postponed very easily by not desexing the kitten until it's definitely going to the people in question. The best is for them to come and see the kitten as it develops, so it might be a 4 or 5 visit thing.

Another thing I ask is that they don't visit other breeders prior to coming to my place (on any given day) because I don't want 'nasties' brought into my home.

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Lesley (Tasmania)