Cat Forum - CONTROVERSIAL! What makes a pedigree cat

#51

26-07-2006, 02:58 AM

Abymummy

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Join Date: Dec 2005

Posts: 2,011

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakirah

DLH is a term which is only used by us in M`sia, but nobody out there understand it,they usually call pedigree on non-pedigree.

bye.....

Forgive me, but you are so wrong about this...DLH, DSH (even DMH for Domestic Medium hair - DSLH) is a term used worldwide - go to any other cat forum and you will still see the same short forms used. Another term used are MOGGYs... for unpapered purebreds...

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#52

26-07-2006, 11:11 AM

faieza

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Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: Amsterdam, NL

Posts: 916

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abymummy

Yes correct Abymummy,
I came across these terms a few times when I first started to learn about this 'Domestic' cats; since I'm guilty of having to call LH cats as Persians all this while as well.
It was indeed an eye opener

obviously I don't want to be the only ignorant in the village, hehe.

#53

26-07-2006, 11:48 AM

comyncats

Senior Member

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: Hobart, Tasmania, Aust

Posts: 2,221

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abymummy

Just to add some thoughts:

As one of the rare birds who breeds Abys in this part of the world:

1. My foundation cats are re-tested for PKd (as opposed to PKD) and are thankfully found PKd normal
2. I breed according to paper and not looks
3. All my kittens are usually registered at 40 days
4. The pet quality is SOLD at pet quality prices, pre-neutered and comes complete with registration, transfer of ownership is borne by the new owner.
5. Show neuters are sold at show neuter prices and paper comes when the neuter/spay is done or completed. Transfer of ownership is borne by the new owner and requests for pedigree (bloodlines) are done straight to CFA by the new owner, not me, the breeder. Why? Simple, the average cost of ownership transfer and 4 generation pedigree certicate is around RM140 (converted from US$, excl. courier charges), I've heard that some local breeders will charge from RM250 to RM500 (huh???) for the papers. I DO NOT want to be known as a cheater and thief. If the new owner wants these papers, do it yourself so that you wont feel cheated!

Yes, "pedigree"ness comes with a piece of paper and that comes from either a local or global registry, not from the breeder per se.

If any breeder wants to sell unneutered pet quality kittens at unreasonable prices, without paper, then I'll have to say - caveat emptor (let the buyer beware). Claims of pedigree will not be entertained by me, personally.

I have an unpapered Aby seriously lookalike at home - he's still a DSH and will remain a DSH until the previous idiot owners whom abandoned him at my vet's (furless and abused) gives me the papers to prove otherwise.

What irks me is still the fact that people will still spend inordinate amounts of money at petshops for unpapered pet quality purebreds. Why spend a couple or few thousand RM when you can get a better, papered cat for the same amount?

Really, does it cost too much to register your pet quality kittens and have them marked NFB (Not for breeding) before you sell them?

BYB's are not just an Asian problem, it's a worldwide problem. Asians are unfortunately more naive when it comes to defining and determining pedigrees and breeds. Especially when a "purebred" kitten goes on sale!

(And it's not helped by unethical Oz breeders who dump their pet quality unneutered kittens over here in Asia!)

So to end this, I'll have to agree with Faieza and Jay:

Registration paper = pedigree
No paper = Domestic

A cat is a cat is a cat - I love them all!

Every sentiment has my 100% agreement. (Though I'm horrified by the thought of breeders charging through the roof to register in the new owner's name!) And I couldn't agree more about the Oz slave-traders. On which point - if anyone has any evidence, PLEASE, email me?

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Lesley (Tasmania)

#54

26-07-2006, 11:51 AM

comyncats

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Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: Hobart, Tasmania, Aust

Posts: 2,221

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abymummy

Ah! For once I have a differing viewpoint!!!!! (How about that?) Moggies (as we use the word) are alley ats,
barn cats, whatever. HHP is the most commonly used term I think - household pet. In Oz, some outfits have "part ped" designation (still a HHP) or "companion" (unpapered purebreds.)

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Lesley (Tasmania)

#55

22-11-2006, 01:30 PM

farish73

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Join Date: Nov 2006

Location: tmn perling,jb,malaysia

Posts: 606

purebreed,pedigree,x breed,moggy,hhp,dlh,dsh,dslh

hi all,

hope that im not too late as i just join this forum. Based on the topic that being discussed, i would say most of us have a valid point here..maybe it would be best to recap like this:

Cat with paper (birth cert):

- if still in the breed line: Purebreed Pedigree

- 2 different purebreed pedigree X each other : X breed pedigree (not sure if still can be registered or not???? )--please help to enlightern me also

NO Cert:
-if other than that, regardless if from parent who got cert still can be call

domestic,moggy/moggie, HHP, x breed

i dont mind at all if i call my cat domestic or moggie or what as long i appreciate the cat itself. later when ppl visiting ur place and notice about your cat he ask " is this persian?" then u just tell them, "no laa, just say crossbreed, or x breed with MC look alike. By doing this, you end up helping to educate the people also, rather than claiming the cat is persian or what. Maybe if you know the history of ur cat, then u can explain to them that the parent is bla, bla ,bla and why it become cross breed just becoz u not register it.

any living thing that need to be legit, still need a birthcert.

Same case for orchid:

orchid have species,
primary hybrid ( species X species)
secondary hybrid (species X primary hybrid)
or just hybrid.

What makes a pedigree?? its the generation history actually so that it wil be much easier to manage it.

but if still want to call ur cat as a pedigree/breed name, please go a head and do so as the cat wont go anywhere , just for ur own satisfaction only.If need to enter ther show, then it still will be under domestic.

my 2 cent here..please do crrect if im wrong..im new also...

btw, i cant help but questioning myself about F1,F2,F3, what is it actually? i notice it most on the Bengal Breed. Also what does it mean by Foundation Breed?

#56

22-11-2006, 02:14 PM

Abymummy

Senior Member

Join Date: Dec 2005

Posts: 2,011

Let me just answer a few of your questions...

Papered cats = pedigree of that breed, registered and certified.

If you are a registered cattery, then breeding the same breed and registering the kittens = pedigree. If you DO NOT register the kittens, then the kittens become Domestic. Sad, but true.

There are a few breeds of pedigree cats which may be outcrossed..eg.

Aby/Somali = Somali, never Aby
Scottish Fold to BSH = Scottish fold
Persians to Exotics = Exotics
for more info, google la

Cats with no papers are Domestics, moggies, household pets etc, irrespective of how the cat was bred.

Foundation cats - the cats you start off with in your cattery - your first male and first few females. These cats do not carry your cattery name as a prefix but rather your cattery name as a suffix.

F1, F2, F3 - denotes how many generations when bred to a wild cat. The bengal breeders would explain this better.

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#57

22-11-2006, 03:42 PM

arisham

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Location: Earth!

Posts: 1,460

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abymummy

Foundation cats - the cats you start off with in your cattery - your first male and first few females. These cats do not carry your cattery name as a prefix but rather your cattery name as a suffix.

erm...says if I bought a pedigree from ABC cattery and my cat name is JOHN DOE and my cattery name is LOVE means...
my cat name should be ABC JOHN DOE of LOVE???

why sometimes I just see a cat name such JOHN DOE only??

Is that a must?

many thanxs..just wanna know...

#58

22-11-2006, 03:48 PM

Abymummy

Senior Member

Join Date: Dec 2005

Posts: 2,011

Quote:

Originally Posted by arisham

erm...says if I bought a pedigree from ABC cattery and my cat name is JOHN DOE and my cattery name is LOVE means...
my cat name should be ABC JOHN DOE of LOVE???

why sometimes I just see a cat name such JOHN DOE only??

Is that a must?

many thanxs..just wanna know...

Your premise is correct - if the cat comes from ABC Cattery and his registered name is John Doe and your cattery name is Love, then the cat's official name will be ABC John Doe of Love.

I've personally never seen or met a cat with the name John Doe...from any cattery! You can name your cat anything you want!

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#59

22-11-2006, 06:50 PM

faieza

Senior Member

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: Amsterdam, NL

Posts: 916

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abymummy

Abymummy...
hahah i think what arisham meant...

Why he saw that there's a pedigree cat with a name like 'John Doe' alone.
Not with any cattery attached.

<cat's breeder cattery's name> <cat's name> of <cat buyer's cattery's name>
Maknanya only <cat's name>

Macam tak valid je.. kan?

#60

22-11-2006, 09:16 PM

heartkiel

Senior Member

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: Singapore

Posts: 1,158

Quote:

Originally Posted by arisham

erm...says if I bought a pedigree from ABC cattery and my cat name is JOHN DOE and my cattery name is LOVE means...
my cat name should be ABC JOHN DOE of LOVE???

why sometimes I just see a cat name such JOHN DOE only??

Is that a must?

many thanxs..just wanna know...

i get what u mean.. not so much for other breeds.. but for siberians especially.. you will see names like IC Balzam, Mura, Svetik. Most of them originate from Russia. These names are more commonly at the back of the pedigree. Not so much the case for now. Now everyone wants a piece of the action so most have cattery names attached to the front and even the back. Mind u in CFA adding your name to the back will cost u extra

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