Can someone please enlighten us? We were just told that HHP cats entered for shows can be substituted just before vetting in by paying a substitution fee. Is that true? The recently concluded catshow was our 3rd experience. We were not told that this can be done. Even at the last 2 shows, when we wanted to change a cat because the cat was not in tip-top condition for the show, we were told to substitute it with one of similar appearance. We were not told that we could actually substitute it with a totally different one (with different markings, colour, sex and owner) just by paying money. Someone who is in the know, please make known the "rules" clearly to us for future reference.

If what we were told is true, what is the point of filling in the details of the cats? Just to fill up the programme book? If that's the case, anyone can just register any cats and make the change on the actual day. How I wish I had known this "rule" for the recently concluded show. I would certainly had made the change for one of my cats who was eliminated in all the 4 rings because he was not in show condition, but we followed strictly by the book and went ahead to show him.

It's very strange that these "rules" (which I feel are very flexible to suit the occasion) are not made known to every potential entrant. Any more "surprises" or "goodies" that we should know for future catshows? Please let us know now so that we can also reap the benefits. At least, now we know that we can just swap cats on the show day itself!

I am really curious that which show you are talking about? Izzit a FIFE Show? or a CFA Show?? Please make it clear for the respective parties to help you.. Coz I stongly Believe you statement is really unclear about which show that is going on coz It has been a few different show that is happening around for the past few month.

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CFA show 13 April 2008

as i am the one who caused the problem let me clarify.

pet epicure entered 5 cats. initially, with the help of ruth and amy we were hoping to get 20 cats into the HHP so we could get a better rate. however, we did not manage and paid the normal fee. one of our long time customers then said he was still interested in showing his cat even though the entry would be the full price. as it was my fault for assuming he wouldn't want to take part, i asked the show committee if i could take one of my cats out and let KOKO in. (his children were alreasy so excited, you see.) at this point the show catalogue had already been printed but the committee OK-ed it.

happily, KOKO did very well and tied with amy gui's tiny tina. however, as there is only one throphy, one of the judges decided to award it to KOKO.

i am sorry this has caused upset to anyone involved. it was never my intention. KOKO's family are lovely people, they neuter their cats and KOKO and KIKI (his sibling) were rescued from a drain near their house. The family have since picked up another abandoned cat and have encouraged their friends to neuter their pets too. i thought this would be a good way to encourage them and hopefully highlight their good example to others.

if there is a mistake, it is mine and your anger should be directed at me.

I would love to give you a link to the rules but i just realised you have to buy them. having said that, i think there are a few people here who will have a copy of the rules. perhaps you can ask them exactly what it says about substitutions.

however, i have been told

1. cfa tries to be lenient with international division clubs regarding substitutions as cat fancy is still new and people are still learning the rules.
2. everyone is particularly lenient with the HHP class because it's main purpose is to promote spay/neuter, responsible pet ownership and to generate pride in local cats.

__________________
Alicia Ling Horsley
PetEpicure


"The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in time of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality."Dante

it is the same for all of us with regards to learning the rules. those who are very keen can buy a copy of the show rules from cfainc.org
otherwise, you learn as you go along.

that is not what i said. you have to contact the show manager and ask for permission. again, people tend to be lenient with the HHP category because it's main purpose is fun and education.

__________________
Alicia Ling Horsley
PetEpicure


"The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in time of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality."Dante

Ruth,

Apologies for the delay in reply.

As I explained in my email to you, the relevant show rule is 15.01.1. Permission was asked and granted for a substitution before the actual show. Indeed for the very same show permission was NOT granted to another request for substition for other very serious reasons. Cats are not SWOPPED at any time, but, substitutions are granted for good reason.

The HHP category is seriously contended in Malaysia and I am very happy that it is. It is, besides the Premiership category, the best showcase for any cat lover's group to promote Spay/Neuter, TNR, and responsible cat ownership.

I was very happy with the amount of noise and excitement the HHP category generated at the show. Many of the public AND the international exhibitors (all seasoned pro exhibitors) actually for the first time in a long time went and actually watched the HHP finals.

I thank you for asking for clarification. It actually does help when people do not understand the rules. There is much leniancy allowed for the HHP category and especially in Asia.

CFA is all about Pedigree cats AND cat welfare. The Winn Feline Foundation would not have been established if not for CFA's concern for Cat Welfare and many many cats around the world have benefitted from the Foundation.

__________________

if there is a mistake, it is mine and your anger should be directed at me.

I would love to give you a link to the rules but i just realised you have to buy them. having said that, i think there are a few people here who will have a copy of the rules. perhaps you can ask them exactly what it says about substitutions.

however, i have been told

1. cfa tries to be lenient with international division clubs regarding substitutions as cat fancy is still new and people are still learning the rules.
2. everyone is particularly lenient with the HHP class because it's main purpose is to promote spay/neuter, responsible pet ownership and to generate pride in local cats.

[/QUOTE]


Alicia, this is not a personal issue and I don't think it should involve you as this show was not organised by FSM. My contention is not with you. We are contending something that happened at the show, so the one who should clarify is the show manager. This is a matter of principle. We're angry with the issue, not with you or the show manager personally.

Anyway, rules are rules. Are we right to assume that for each cat show, rules can be "changed" to be lenient to potential entrants for reasons that you state? In that case, why have rules? Maybe in the future, every entrant should be studied on a case to case basis and rules be tailor made for them. From now onwards, for each cat show, everybody should bring a few cats, do some scouting around and then only decide which ones to enter. Of course, don't forget the substitution fee. More money in the coffers. We would expect the show manager to approve and not show favouritism because a precedent has been set.

What irks us is that we were not informed of such a practice of substituting which was in fact already in effect. Otherwise, we would have substituted one of our entrants with another cat (with totally different physical characteristics such as colour, name, sex, markings, etc.), which was in better condition, at the recent show. We would most certainly have done the swap with our "below form" cat which we already knew would end in a disastrous outing for him.

We've enquired from some people and they are surprised that such a thing could be done. They said that the cat should have been disqualified or entered in an honorary capacity as it was entered after the closing date. The actual entry should have been deemed to be absent. People may think we're sore losers but if the shoe was on the other foot, we would like to see whether that person will take it lying down. Yes, we don't deny that catshows should be fun. We did have a lot of fun but it was marred by this incident. I'm sure winning is important to everyone, otherwise, why enter a contest. That's why we (our show team) have dumped a lot of time and resources on our cats. Most certainly, not to lose to a "phantom" entry. If everything was in order, the other cat was properly entered and it won, we would not have brought up this issue.

But I would say judging was carry out fairly on each cat.
Simple concept : Best cat win!

We don't dispute that judging was carried out fairly. That's why when our cats were eliminated in certain rings, we accepted that, even though we were disappointed.

IMO, no matter how many times a person swap their cat, if the quality is not up to the required standard, I doubt the cat will win.[/QUOTE]

The issue at hand now was not the judging, but a matter of principle. Our cat lost to a "phantom" entry. To us, it's a "phantom" entry because it seemed to us that none of the judges had the correct entry. Yesterday noon, we received a call from a show committee member by the name of John, who called us for the name of our cat who won the 7th place in Ring 3. He told Amy that the slot was empty. Instead our 7th placed cat was listed on his list as best HHP for that ring. How could this be? I would think there would be an official list of winners. Why should an exhibitor be called up to confirm the placings?

When we asked him the name of the winner of the Highest Scoring HHP Category, he said it was Linnet when actually it was Koko. How come a committee member who was updating the results for the website not know about the new substituted entry if it was done properly as claimed by the show manager?

i'm not in the show hall..however, i believed this things should be done when there is substitution ...


1. The show manager can decide whther he/she can accept the case
2. If the show manager decide to accept, he/she must inform the master clerk for changes, the master clerk will do the changes and inform ring clerks/judges
3. any neccessary reports/documents/forms should be supplied by the organizer to CFA in the CFA packet

read more :-
http://kitten.com.my/forum/cat-show...html#post140146

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ruth, what saddens me most is your inabilty to see any good in anything, this cat show included.

the good i see?

1. one more new family have been recognised for their exceptional care of their domestic cat
2. their friends and family are already emulating them. their friend's friends and family may then follow.
3. the improvement in an inestimate-able number of cat's lives. even the biggest waves start as a tiny ripple.
4. you've learnt (as i recently did) about substitutions for the future (if you ever take part again)
5. local show committees are truly devoted to promoting the welfare of HHP's, even if it at their expense. bravo!

__________________
Alicia Ling Horsley
PetEpicure


"The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in time of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality."Dante